Monday, 10 July 2017

Strip the titles? Strip the sanity, more like...


Ibrox Noise has been far from quiet over this ‘title stripping’ nonsense the SPL has been peddling of late. Ever since Rangers lost the appeal over the Big Tax Case, every worm from every rock has crawled and wriggled its way back into the picture, oozing its way onto a soapbox to announce, with no lack of self righteous indignation, just why Big Bad Ranjurs deserve to have the book thrown at them, followed by the library, brick by brick.

Do not mistake us, we do feel Dave King has a few questions to answer akin to what Gordon Smith proposed in his paper column, but we have to applaud the chairman’s statement of recent times which really does nail the whole fallacy of the ‘strip the titles’ campaign.

You see, every non-Bear and his dog in these lands seems to think Rangers cheated, got an unfair advantage and afforded players they had no earthly right to. But King’s statement really hit the nail on the head in such a flush manner only the deluded and mildly insane would think anyone had a case for Rangers being relieved of legitimate league triumphs.

For the chairman, in his inimitably business-jargon style expressed the whole point of why title stripping is utterly ludicrous; the scheme, a perfectly legal one, was designed to save Sir David Murray cash through his holding company via rebates on outlay on player transfers and wages.

Put simply, no matter what scheme was or was not taking place, Murray (and Rangers) had to legitimately put the full cash up front for the football club, and the idea behind EBTs was to then skim a bit off the top and restore cash via tax avoidance to MIH.

In English? If Murray put up 10M for a player, and was to pay £20k a week wages, his use of EBTs was to try and save HIM cash through his entirely separate MIH company back – regardless of whether he did or did not use the scheme, he had to put that cash up in the first place.

Rangers did not spend money they did not have, Murray’s attempts were to save cash afterwards – that is on his conscience, and his company’s books. It has nothing do with Rangers oldco nor any entitlement or otherwise to players we could not afford.

It is like going into a shop and buying a product for £20, then after you get your receipt, persuading the nice lady behind the counter that the sign you missed for a 20% off all purchases today coupon could still apply, and would she so kindly refund you £4.

You were always able to afford that £20, and were always buying the item, but you greedily want a bit back anyway.

In short – NO sporting advantage was had, on or off the pitch, and the suggestion otherwise is absolute tot.

The number of honest Celtic men who have conceded the whole thing is absolute rot and they were beaten fairly on the pitch numbers many more than those imbeciles who claim otherwise.

I am sure this entry will attract the usual mentalists, loonies and moonhowlers – bring ‘em on.

But Rangers have more pressing matters than a few obsessed fools chanting in the dark about why titles should be taken away.

In truth, most of them were born after Livi tax avoided their way to a title in 2011 anyway

27 comments:

  1. I think the argument is that instead of on paper someone was getting 20k per week, then losing a chunk of it for tax they were in fact paid closer to the full amount using an undeclared tax avoidance scheme, meaning the player was paid more than they should have been.

    That's what everyone else's problem is, but you could argue we spent money we didn't have using the simple fact we had a massive bank loan that was grossly greater than everyone else in the league, though that's legal and an entirely separate entity.

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    1. Get a judge in to look at the scottish game over this pass 10 to 15 years.He need to look at every thing not just RANGERS. Look at EBTs,LLPs which teams were demoted , which teams weren't and why.Why some clubs had a big influence, why some clubs lost points other clubs got kicked out of leagues.Get all clubs involved. Find why a club bought property for one tenth of its value from Glasgow city council.

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  2. Well explained Ed. Now everybody should know that you are correct.

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  3. I agree with everything in this article and Celtic ,Aberdeen ETC demean themselves and their club by continuing to try and bring Rangers down.
    I hope they have not the effrontery to try and say it is for sporting integrity. Follow Follow

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  4. It really does boggle my mind how many people don't understand that the money paid to players had to be there first and that the tax part was as you said done later to Murray's benefit. Have any of these idiots actually looked at Murray's net worth throughout the time? If they think he didn't have the money to afford those players they're more deluded than we think.

    Doing things in a tax efficient manner is good business and to be fair it would have been perfectly legal if they'd managed it better.

    The problem with it as said in the judgement is the money paid into the trust was always available to the players and there were never any securities taken by the trust when the loans were granted.

    It should have been more of a bonus scheme instead of a regular payment to the trust.

    Have the idiots think rangers invented EBT's and that they're all banned since Wednesday decision.

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    1. Not about who invented them but rather how they were used. EBTs could be used as loans and paid back. Problem here is letters saying they are part of payment. Same letters and payments that were not registered with the football governing bodies.

      It is not illegal to drive a car provided you have tax, insurance and a license but just because someone drives past you does not mean they have all or any of these requirements and it would be naive to assume they did.

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  5. Rangers fans just don't get it do they? The period when Rangers were attracting
    really top talent from across Europe was all funded by fraudulent means. End of.
    You would not have been able to get these players if you used the normal legal methods. Why shouldn't other teams demand those titles be nulled?

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    1. Because everyone as at it, Celtic are spending money which is being investigated. They also have there own tax avoidance being investigated and till that outcome is finalised I wouldn't be pushing for a stripping of titles since it may come back to bite u big time

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    2. Jemmy get real ..for Pete's sake Rangers could afford at that time to get these players ...Murray just used EBT for tax avoidance to his company...How many times you sad jealous people !!!!

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    3. jenny we've always got it,the problem is trying for the intelectually challenged from the east end/noth east to get it. celtic should know how these work havng used an ebt for juninho.

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    4. Ah right so it is obvious that Rangers could afford these players but chose not to pay them all through their registered contracts. What were they saving the money for? To avoid an administration event and liquidation?

      This is seriously the most barmy explanation I have read yet.

      I would say a better analogy is going to the shop with £20 and lifting something at £30 but then sticking a £20 price tag on it and paying using your £20.

      What by the way are Celtic being investigated for? I was unaware of this? Is it another along the lines of the land deal that was looked at last year thanks to some well founded reporting?

      I can clear up the Juninho thing for you though. He was paid off using an EBT. This was not a side contract . Celtic then took advice, contacted HMRC and paid any outstanding monies. Hope that helps.

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    5. What we need now in scottish football is bring in a English judge and look at everything that has happened over the last 10 to 15 years .I mean every thing from EBTs to LLPs to who got put down to the lowest leagues and who didn't get demoted and why. Answers are needed about other clubs influencing decisions , how property was sold to football clubs from Glasgow city council for a tenth of its value,why the co-op bank gave cheap loans to football clubs while other companies had to paid high interest. This is only a a start, a whole range of things could be looked at including paper and tv companies . All clubs could be involved.

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    6. Ah right the Celtic employees that invested some of the money that Celtic paid them from their registered contracts (after tax and national insurance deduction were made) into LLPs. Yeah let's see how far that one concerns Celtic.

      Seriously guys give it up. That is like saying caution a supermarket under banned substance legislation because some of their employees went out one weekend and bought drugs from their wages.

      And sure given your wish list why not add parachuting a club into the league structures rather than make them earn the right to play in them.

      I hear chat that Porto are looking at the possibility that they were denied a last 16 place in Champions League and associated prize money in the mid 00's by a team fielding improperly registered players.

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    7. Jay you are right Celtic players did pay their tax and Nat. Insurance, but claimed it all back when their LLPs lost money.Read how LLPs works.Its a tax avoidance scheme. You forgot to answer about the property deal with Glasgow city council

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    8. Bilco if players are operating tax avoidance with their own money how does that concern Celtic football club today?

      Did HMRC take any case against Celtic or did they take a case against players?

      Also and crucially in such circumstances would football rules be broken in terms of registration of players and associated eligibility of participation in competitions?

      Does not really sound like the smoking gun you are looking for or is it just moral ground you are after?

      As for the land deal. Are you getting your information third hand down at the boozer? Or did I not read that all that was investigated to a conclusion at European level after a complaint by someone who is probably a football (loose term) fan.

      To be honest I know what you are angling at but if you take personal responsibility for a group of people with written authorization and the stuff hits the fan then you are on the hook. After that it does not really matter much about whataboutery however appropriate or otherwise.

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    9. If Rangers admit they are a new club and take those stars off the shirt, I'll forgive you David..If not, let the title stripping commence. Here's what the shameless liar said in 2012:

      In June 2012 King told the Daily Mail: “‘I think we should be sorry – and I certainly am sorry. We owe both the Rangers fans and the Scottish footballing public an apology.

      ‘Some of the representations made have betrayed more of a victim status. But I think somebody needs to apologise.

      “Clearly, that is not for Charles Green to do. But I am happy to say that I really believe we should be saying sorry and I think there is something to be sorry about.

      “And as a former director when these things were going on, I am minded to do so.

      “With regard to EBTs, I was on the board so I have to take some responsibility.

      “And I follow the logic of the argument that if we lose the tax case then we probably gained some competitive advantage.

      “I believe that, on behalf of myself and most of the board members who were with me and probably agree with me, that we should apologise for that.”

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  6. So why we're Rangers defending this action and not mih

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  7. Oh right so the EBTs were just to save the person paying the players money. So this did not mean that he could offer a more lucrative wage than when not using the scheme.

    And as all contracts had to be registered with the football authorities and these EBT payments were not then I assume that was just saving the football authorities administration work as opposed to illegally registering them.

    I am glad I read this article because it all makes sense now.

    As you say it is like going to the shop with £20 and buying something on sale for £16 but you could still have afforded it when if it was £20 so it was no really use getting 20% off.

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    1. Hmrc are going after there money via each player that had one...

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    2. @jay yer no graspin it at all, wether celtic contacted hmrc or not the fundamental point being they used the same facility as the club they obcess so much about,incedently only paid it after being found out.as does it make any less of a cheatin bastard if i sleep with one woman or 50 woman? no. As for the past you may be to young to remember the whites and kellys dodging tax by fidlin attendance figures despite full stadiums. fortunatley we don't forget this or the hearse waiting outside with the clock tikin, ahh the old arses eh!

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    3. My understanding was that Juninhos EBT was a pay off rather than something he was being paid through while playing for Celtic thus not breaking player registration rules. But look if it was a case that part of his wages were being paid this way while playing then all Celtic games that he played in would have to be awarded 3-0 to the opposition. I think this could actually lead to Hearts or else Aberdeen being the ones who were cheated out of the title that season.

      As for the Kellys and Whites, I know they ran our club into the ground the way Murray did with Rangers. You are correct, I do not know the specifics but I know the Celtic fans got together, got organised and got them out. I must have a google now and see what they were charged with. Thanks.

      And indeed thanks all for having good reasoned debate on this topic rather than the muck throwing that goes on at some sites.

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  8. we could argue the point all day long,if they strip titles then we strip them of revenue simples! we will fill ibrox for home or away matches via beam back, time to ramp it up mr king, let's stop 3 n a row.in fact i think we should start singin you'll never get 3 in a row LOL

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    1. Deary deary me. Ibrox noise can you please scour your readership for an Ibrox facing contributor with an IQ OF MORE THAN 4. With regard to your chairman 's statement I am no longer convinced he is resident in SA. I am convinced he now lives in Essex......Barking. For reliability in relation to statements from Chairman GASL please refer to the pronouncements of the judge in his tax trial. To paraphrase.....can be trusted less far than he can be drop kicked. Rangers did not benefit from EBT'S aye right. Yer former chairman Mr Black admitted the EBT'S gave access to otherwise unaffordable players, in evidence to tribunal. IMHO EBT'S are not required for title stripping. Simply follow precedent and where there is improper player registration n any game,turn those wins to losses. Simples. Surprised our champions of football governance the SPFL and SFA haven't thought of it before now.

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  9. I suppose it will not really matter in, 10, 20 or 50 years time, a lot of titles to be won or lost. Current board members /chairmen etc will be long gone, HMRC will have moved to deal with other matters. Which bring me to my point, is Mr King going to survive, clock is ticking on what will be our worst signing ever, if you do not agree, you will be staggered soon.J

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  10. For the state aid conspirators amongst us:

    https://www.glasgow.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=20349

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